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Westboro Baptist Church member debates with students, greeted by protesters

By Tony Wittkowski on November 1, 2010 11:18 pm in Academics, Featured / 33 comments

 
Westboro Baptist Church member debates with students, greeted by protesters
Shirley Phelps-Roper (middle) of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas and her daughters Megan, left, and Rebekah, right, spoke to Associate Professor Timothy Boudreau's JRN 404: Law of Mass Communication class on Monday afternoon in the Engineering and Technology Building. "All we are doing is bringing a message," said Shirley Phelps-Roper. "They've been taught all their life to believe in one thing (God). It's hard to just come in and say you're wrong. If you serve God, you'll know you're are not being tricked." (Bethany Walter/Staff Photographer)

Shirley Phelps-Roper faced a crowd of journalism students gathered in the Engineering and Technology Building and told them of a terrible fate she feels they could face.

“We deserve death, we deserve hell,” Phelps-Roper said. “If you serve God, you will not be tricked.”

Phelps-Roper, along with two of her daughters, spoke to three journalism classes Monday about her experience with the First Amendment. The three come from the Westboro Baptist Church, a relgious group out of Topeka, Kan. nationally known for protesting soldiers’ funerals following 9/11.

Eliana Lifson, 10, of Mount Pleasant rests her head on her mother Rachel Ann Foster's shoulder as the two stand amidst about 60 protesters who gathered at CMU against Shirley Phelps-Roper. "They can't tell us what to do," said Lifson, who called in sick to school to practice free speech. "Straight people support this. Gays and lesbians are free to do what they want." (Jake May/Photo Editor)

But the discussion strayed away from the topic when those in attendance began asking questions about anything from the family’s funeral protests to the Bible and the molestation of children by priests.

At one point, Phelps-Roper criticized President Barack Obama, calling him “the Antichrist” and “not a real Christian.”

“There was a fair amount of opposition to her coming,” said Timothy Boudreau, associate journalism professor. “But not as much as I expected.”

Boudreau contacted Phelps-Roper through an e-mail address listed on the WBC website, inviting her to speak in his three journalism classes.

“We usually try to bring a controversial person in once every semester,” Boudreau said. “Just to give students an experience in case they have to interview someone they don’t agree with.”

The Westboro Baptist Church visits Central Michigan University from CMLifeVideo on Vimeo.

For Phelps-Roper, it has been five years since she last spoke at a university.

“It’s wonderful here, these kids are great,” Phelps-Roper said. “They’ve been taught all their life to believe in one thing, so it’s hard to tell them you’re wrong.”

Not everyone was against the idea of Phelps-Roper speaking at CMU.

John Smith, a Mount Pleasant resident, CMU retiree and veteran, asked Phelps-Roper several questions which drew support from the audience.

“I applaud Tim for doing it,” Smith said. “It’s something that needed to be done.”

Smith, who served in Korea for three and a half months before being injured at the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, argued over the real interpretation of the Bible.

“Everyone has something good about them,” Smith said. “But I couldn’t find it in them.”

Protest

Around campus, protesters gathered to voice their displeasure over the WBC’s views.

A crowd of about 60 people met by the Charles V. Park Library, accompanied by an arrangement of signs.

Two of the protestors included 10-year-old Eliana Lifson and her mother, Rachel Ann Foster.

Foster let Eliana take the day off from school to participate in the protest. Together, they held a sign that read “God is a lesbian.”

“They can’t tell us what to do,” Eliana said. “Gays and lesbians are free to do what they want.”

The two students who helped organize the protest were Bay City junior Kyle Elsea and Crystal Lake sophomore Annie Somerville.

The protest remained peaceful when Phelps-Roper passed by.

“I understand she has a right to speak here,” said Elsea, an Iraq veteran. “So we figured we would do the same … We don’t appreciate her being here.”

During the protest, there were also donations collected for the Human Rights Campaign and the Wounded Warriors Project.

“The Dogma Free Society is taking donations and donating them in Westboro’s name to organizations they don’t like,” Somerville said.

-Staff Reporter Michael L. Hoffman contributed to this report

 

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  • Michmediaperson

    Did CMU pay these folks to come? Or, did Westboro pay their own way?

    Could CM LIFE please find out.

    Boudreau ought to bring in Hannity or Beck, someone who could blast this left-wing group from Kansas. Only left-wingers would protest a military funeral!

  • Kyle Goodall

    They are very kind people one-on-one… humble, respectful, and very grateful. Regarding Smith’s comment – I did find good in them, and that is that the Phelps-Ropers speak their own truth, and also celebrate Life to their own fullest– be grateful for the present moment!

    Thank you Shirley and daughters for coming. I commend your integrity and gratitude.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Wes-Sovis/740991069 Wes Sovis

    Great work, CMU. Great article about someone who didn't deserve half of the objectivity you all gave to her in this piece. It must have been hard to write this..

  • ThoughtfulPause

    I’m assuming this comment is filled with ironic humor on purpose. Regardless, it left me laughing.

    Regarding the story it is indeed an interesting look at the first amendment. We’ll have to see what the Supreme Court says about them come December.

  • Driver

    Michmediaperson, yesterday’s protest was a great example of unity across the political spectrum, it’s a shame you have to try and use it for divisive partisan purposes. WBC’s virulent homophobia scarcely locates them on the left. Their indiscriminate hate doesn’t neatly fit into any ideological category – pathological, perhaps…

  • I_Was_A_Teenage_McCarthyist

    Objectivity is sooooooo…. overrated anyway.

  • TeddyKGB

    A fundamentalist group is LEFT-wing?
    What color is the sky in your world?

  • Steve

    Eliana Lifson, 10, of Mount Pleasant rests her head on her mother Rachel Ann Foster's shoulder as the two stand amidst about 60 protestors who gathered at Central Michigan University against Shirley Phelps-Roper, a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, who came to speak to students about First Amendment rights. “They can't tell us what to do,” said Lifson, who called in sick to school to practice free speech. “Straight people support this. Gays and lesbians are free to do what they want. I'm straight, but I am not narrow. … (The WBC doesn't) even know the definition of decency. They prey on hate, fear and sorrow.”

    Wow. that kid has been brainwashed. A 10-year-old kid shouldn't be saying any of that or even concerned with homosexuals or heterosexuals. This is yet another example of why homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to have children; the children are brainwashed and indoctrinated and have a twisted view of reality.

  • Timbankful

    in their own why the left is as fundamental if not more then any right wing group. The plank issues regarding homosexuality and anti-religionist are fundamental issue upon which the left will never deviate.

  • PadreWayne

    Um… you might check your facts before such a rediculous comment.

  • Andrew Blom

    What 10-year-old kid doesn't know about heterosexuals? Attraction and love between women and men is portrayed in mainstream children's books, Disney movies and all over TV. If some 10-year-olds are led to believe that this is the only form that attraction and love takes, then who exactly is indoctrinating kids with a twisted view of reality?

  • Lindsay H.

    I wish I had been able to attend this. While I find the message of WBC disgusting, there are questions I have about this organization that I want answered, but have never heard asked. Perhaps it's because they're so out there, it's too difficult not to get angry at their rhetoric.

    Considering this is a religious organization, I want to know what exactly they get out of their protests and beliefs; the feeling they get while they're standing outside a fallen soldier's funeral; and where they think their eternity will be spent. Are they angry at our culture? Sad? Scared? Are they trying to convert people? It seems like they pass a lot of judgement, but have never backed up their actions with anything more than anger and pointed fingers. Why is that? How did the beliefs of the WBC become so wildly different than most other Christian denominations? I don't want to know these things to legitimize the WBC, I'm just genuinely interested in how this group landed so far off the map.

    In terms of this being an exercise for journalism students, did anyone in attendance get anything out of this that will help their professional careers? It's easy to get angry, it's not so easy to analyze someone and ask questions that haven't already been asked, then report something new. Boudreau definitely brought in a controversial group, but from this article, and the video by Joe Borlik, it seems to me like the students asking questions weren't trying to unveil anything new about the group, they were just giving the WBC a new platform to disseminate hate by allowing the WBC to say the same things we've all heard them say over and over again. I think the key would be to not get in an argument with Phelps-Roper, and instead, ask questions that actually require her to formulate an answer, rather than spew hateful, ingrained and rehearsed talking points.

  • Amylink1

    As Padre said – check your facts before making assumptions that are untrue. Way to go Rachel and Eliana. Proud to know you!

  • student

    I am not as harsh as you, but I do question a 10 year old attending any sort of rally. Let me be clear that I am NOT saying homosexuals should not be able to have children, that is totally other topic.10 year old's are children and cannot make rational decisions to issues such as homosexuality, politics and other similar topics. They simply follow in the footprints of their parents. It is the same way for WBC, who have their children much younger than 10 hold signs that read, “God Hates Fags”. In both incidents it is wrong and the parents should be ashamed of them selves.

  • Rachel Ann Foster

    Both Eliana's father and I are heterosexuals. Why would you assume otherwise/

  • Rachel Ann Foster

    Then when you are a parent, I suggest you keep your children away from protests. We choose to educate our children about values, the rights and obligations of citizenship, and standing up for their beliefs. They may choose to believe other than we do, however, we do hope the civics lessons and caring about others stay with them.

  • CMU85

    So, who are these people and why are they doing this? They are members of a radical Christian group which uses raging, loud, rude, anti-gay demonstrations as its cornerstone for existence or … maybe the real reason they do what they do is to play the various lawsuit and attorneys' fees games, etc. In other words, to make money. Disrupt our demonstration, we sue you, etc. As crazy as it sounds. The organization is called Westboro Baptist Church, based in Topeka, Kansas. The Wikipedia page on the organization details some of this. I am glad my alma mater brought these people in. I am glad demonstrations against them were peaceful. Bring on the free speech. Be nice to each other. Note to Tim Boudreau: Universities these days do NOT do this well. They are much better at shutting down speech, administrators and presidents cowering. I follow this. It is horrendous. So congrats to you.

  • Rachel Ann Foster

    Thanks, Amy. See you at church Sunday!

  • person

    no tim didn't pay for them to come…they paid for everything on their own

  • student

    Your child is 10 years old, she cannot grasp the situation or even begin to understand the situation you are putting them in. If you think otherwise you are an ignorant individual. I agree children should be introduced to the values you have listed, but in a way they can understand.

  • Rachel Ann Foster

    See you at the next protest!

  • Mossdale

    It is pointless to argue with the Westboro folks. There is no compromise or concession in their position. They have made their reasons for “protesting” funerals abundantly clear for years now. Having them come to a class to discuss anything is an exercise in futility. All they want is a forum to repeat their beliefs, and the prof. fell for it.

  • mae

    I think what you are doing is fine, better than raising your kids to be sheltered.

  • Duffie

    Leviticus 20 Obviously states that homosexuality is wrong.

    But God gives us free will. And it's technically not a sin to be gay, just to act on it.

    Just like being tempted isn't a sin but giving in is.

    And if Westboro was right, then we would go to hell for lying, and every other sin we commit.

    They have a few good points, possibly.

    But God does not HATE “fags”

    Unless they will NEVER follow him. (romans 9)

  • USMC-Iraq-veteran

    Congrats to the organizers on a respectful protest – the WBC is just a hate group.

  • USMC-Iraq-veteran

    You might want to check your spelling, too. —-^

  • MaryWaterton

    The sign “God is a lesbian” is about as blasphemous as it gets. These homosexuals are too demonic to even comprehend the depth of their depravity and how angry it makes God. Right now God is offering a complete pardon to everyone in exchange for repentance. But there is coming a day when His patience will end. YOU say God “loves” everybody, but the Scripture says that He loves only the repentant. Consider the following:

    “The Son of Man (ie, Jesus) shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do INIQUITY; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42)

    “Many are called, but few are chosen (ie, admitted into heaven).” (Matthew 22:14)

    If God loves everyone, then why is He sending so many to Hell?

  • Amber

    Maybe this 10 yr old is significantly brighter than most 10 yr olds and does understand the situation. I don't feel as though it is anyones right except the parents to make this choice. I'm glad she is showing her child what the world is like. She will be well prepared to handle situations that are handed to her unlike a sheltered child. who really will have NO IDEA what is going on… Good for you Rachel you have my support!!!!

  • JOHNHI

    YOUR ONLY LYING TO YOURSELF

  • Klingonj

    you are an idot

  • Klingonj

    Please list some actual times that events were shouted down at universities. I know of one. The urban legend of it happening all the time is just that- made up stuff. That said, I agree with you on these idiots.

  • TheLaw

    If they ever have the stupidity to come to any funeral I'm at to protest……there will be less leaving in the same condition then arrived….promise. I have zero tolerance for them.

  • Anonymous

    This Westboro Baptist Church says they hate the Gay-Community.
    But, they also hate African Americans, Dr. & Mrs. King, Canada, Sweden, the
    Fire Department of N.Y., victims of 911, other Christian churches, the pope,
    Judaism, America, our American troops and the list goes on and on. Many of the
    groups they despise are specifically named on their hate propaganda, picket
    signs and their many websites. They not only hate, but wish death on all whom
    they abhor.

    This so-called “church” spreads its hate through picketing in
    our streets, provoking attacks, with abusive language and flag desecration,
    attempting to create a confrontation. This is not about protesting, this is
    about a life of hate. They are in it for the money and the press.  They are not a “church.” They go
    after any thing that can get them in the news. This group will protest anything
    to get its face on TV or in the news. This group is lost in the darkness of
    hate, and will put there children in danger to shield themselves.

    These people protest at the funerals of our troops. Do we have a
    real need to protest at any funeral? Is that a real freedom?

    The city of Topeka, the state of Kansas and the U.S. at large,
    its citizens and their churches, schools and events are all held hostage by
    this “hate group.”-always at the tax payer’s expense.